DEBATE: Cave Man Vs. Vegan: What is the Best Diet

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This video is about DEBATE: Cave Man Vs. Vegan: What is the Best Diet.
This is from Freedom Fest 2014. Here’s the raw footage that I shot. A Debate with the CEO of Whole Foods and the guy who wrote the book “Paleo Manifesto”. Please let me know what you think of this session.
Video Rating: 4 / 5


LeoInterHyenaem says:

Both are ignorant. Some of the people in the audience are better speakers
for #veganism. 

Todd Johnson says:

Veganism has worked well for me personally.

Al Wood says:

I follow a whole food plant based diet, because I feel that it is the
healthiest. I believe that the science supports this. I have personally
experienced a health improvement once I gave up all animal products.
I respect opposing views, especially John Durant, because as confident as I
am in my opinion, I fully recognize that I may be wrong. 

David Lee says:

Interesting that John Mackey just happens to pick countries like Abkhasia
to make his claim about longevity. That country only suffered a loss of
70% of its population by ethnic cleansing — ask yourself, why didn’t he
pick Okinawa? They are actually the longest lived people on this planet.
Hmm? Do you suppose he never picked them because they would not fit into
his snake oil bullshit. 

Nic F says:

The guy advocating the “cave man” diet is clearly physically superior to
the Vegan. It is a fact that dietary cholesterol and saturated fat are
directly related to testosterone levels.

kaunas888 says:

Cholesterol is misunderstood. If anything cholesterol is a repair or
adaptation response when the body tends to be stressed or out of balance.
So cholesterol can correlate as a repair symptom to stress, but I do not
believe that high cholesterol causes health problems. It is like blaming
firemen for being present at fires, and then concluding that closing down
the Fire Department will prevent fires because firemen and fires tend to go
together. The firemen do not cause the fires but react to them and help
put them out. Same with cholesterol.

Andrew Easson says:

Once again the Vegan guy is clearly slimmer than the Paleo guy, and they
Paleo guy clearly has Gynecomastia (enlarged breasts in men). Paleo or
Atkins or HFLC is ok short term to reduce weight, but long term it is not
wise as it promotes weight gain, heart disease, possible increase in cancer
due to long term animal meats / protein.

PaleBlueDotCitizen says:

This is really pathetic.

“B12 is not found in any plants.”

“You’re making my points for me.”

No, B12 is not made by plants, nor is it made by cows, chickens, pigs,
turkeys or fish. B12 is made by bacterial organisms in soil and during our
evolution we ate soil-covered roots and didn’t wash them (or ourselves).

Vegetables grown in chemically-scorched, mono-agriculture fields of clay
that are deviod of organic topsoil will have no B12. Eat organic or
home-grown veggies, don’t over-wash them and you’ll get plenty of B12.

起正 says:

ok, so everyone knows that the “sad” diet makes people sick, but also there
are many who have been on “jad” (starchy standard japanese diet) who become
ill as well over here in japan, who also never had the “sad” diet in their
life time whatsoever. the diabetic rate is about the same both in the u.s.
and japan, yet our obesity rate is only 3% says that. lets include the part
in the discussion next time. just to make a balanced debate.

David Lee says:

The foremost paleontologist of the last century, Stephen J. Gould, said
that the Earth was dead and it would only be a matter of time before it
began to reek from the stench of a rotting corpse. He made that remark
after viewing all of the plastic in the center of the Pacific Ocean. So —
no matter what you may believe about what is best for our environment —
it’s too late. That is, unless Larry Page has his people develop
self-replicating robots within the next 2 – 3 decades to clean up our mess.
Otherwise — makes no difference what you do or do not eat. It’s too

Nova says:

funny how we have to COOK meat or else theres a chance we will get sick….
i’ve never heard of one who ate raw vegtables and got sick. just saying

valbona bergman says:

I really like how the Vegan guy tries to mention the correlation about
heart disease and cholesterol ,but when the Paleo guy said that low
cholesterol was related to suicide etc, Vegan guy goes: well i have low
cholesterol…did he mean correlation isn’t causation? good for him
admiting it 😀 And what about that argument that meat eaters have to eat
factory farmed meat but vegans have a choice to buy organic? will they stop
using it already? 😛 Lastly on the issue of why someone does a vegan diet,
i have heard two reasons, one is for health issues, because it is presented
as the optimal diet for humans the other one is that it is a sustainable
diet for ethical reasons! I can understand the second part, you decide not
to eat any animal products and so to make up for the nutrition you have to
eat 3000 calories per day or you will be deficient/starving etc, i get
that…people can totrure themselves for whatever they think the cause it’s
worth! But saying veganism is optimal for health ,it is a big lie and
mistake ,that is why the Vegan guy in the video did not opose to a little
bit of meat eating. Of course junk food is bad, this is a common ground of
all those diets!

Mumpy Gumboo says:

I think one should eat according to their genetics. An Eskimo has a lineage
that has adapted to eating 10 lbs of fatty meat a day, and no rates of
heart disease or diabetes in that particular stone age culture. To make
those folks not eat so much meat would likely cause them ill
health. Meanwhile, we find some South American and African cultures that
have been eating a lot of carbs for thousands of years, also with excellent
cardiovascular health histories. To tell them to eat a lot of meat, like
Eskimos did would likely cause them ill health, as well.

However, no one, absolutely no one, is adapted to processed, sugary foods
and/or foods with bad sorts of fats in them.

I think the trick is to find out what your ancestors ate. A lot of folks
are simply missing some essential fats found in cold water fish that their
ancestors, in Northern Europe, consumed daily. And, of course, they are
simply addicted to sugar.

I believe it is important to find out what your ancestors ate and mimic
this. However, most folks in N. America are hybrids, genetically. They
might have a sibling who can’t gain weight, whatsoever, while they have a
heck of a time shaving off the pounds themselves. Their sibling might eat
an orange and become more alkaline, while they become more acidic after the
orange. I think one has find out what kind of metabolism they were born
with, basically. And, then, they can do their best to source out some good
quality natural food to eat that suits their physiology.

And then there is the issues of reducing stress, so the cortisone levels
drop, and the importance of cleansing out bad bacteria in the guts and
growing the good ones. 

Aris Psaltis says:

Ok many fallacies and contradictions here especialy from the 30 year old
john durant.
But first something they both got wrong or both got right depending on the

There is no such thing as a carnivore,omnivore or herbivore.We r all
animals and we all eat plants AND meat.

In example gorillas eat worms and insects resting to plants or in their
skin when the groom. Lions eat grass when they r sick.They also prefer to
hunt when their prey has just had its grass meal. When they eat it they
start from the stomach which contains the partialy digested grass. This is
an exeptional meal to them and they tend to fight for it. Most of the other
predators have similar eating habbits. Does this mean that all animals are
omnivores? NO. that s not right either. because all omnivores are EITHER
primary carnivores or primary herbivores. And the percentage of each source
of food is also important. Ie chickens are less carnivorous than rats and
bears are about in the middle,
Based on his physiology human is a primary herbivore, less carnivorous than
chimpanzee even than gorilla(shorter and more blunt teeth than both)

Let me start with Mackey who was remarkably objective to the point he even
advocate in favor of paleo at some point. However.
At some point he said he won t discuss GMO in public yet at another point
he blamed GMO milking cows because it suited him. I understand that
discussing GMO will turn the subject around GMOs but that does not allow
him to break his own rules. I wonder why Durant didn t caught him off guard
there.. that s all i have against Mackey I disagree on some things ie
percentage of plant foods in human diet should be more like 98-99.9% rather
than 90-99 based on physiology and comparison to our cousins. But that s a
matter of opinion only since i can t prove anything better than Dr Cambel’s
study which says 12% is the absolute top.

Now on to Durant,

a)23:52 Mimicing nature does not include feeding chickens and turkeys to
lions. Zoo keepers report that lions fed chickens get sick even
domesticated beef is not proper food for them.

b)Bonobos are pretty much like gorillas, they eat ocationally worms that
rest in fruits other than that it s 99.9% fruits. Chimpanzees do hunt, but
only during droughts or winter and the animal intake is less than 3%.

c)26:32 He is comparing kale to beef liver??? liver at least 3 times more
nutrient dense than any other meat part. However very few people will like
the thought of eating liver. Also liver contains bad nutrients such as
cholesterol saturated fat etc. Ofc he does not believe them to be bad but
that does not go well with what doctors say.Also liver has 0 fiber. A
nutrition expert who does not know how many calories is a gram of fat is a
very bad sight to watch…

d)He did bring up the gut bacteria issue many times. I was surpised…Whole
grains is the best way to achieve gut health.that s because of
fiber.bacteria eat fiber and without fiber they die. He did also mention
fermented foods however it s proven that feeding the existing colonies with
fiber is much more important than instaling new bacteria with fermented
foods. Also meat has the kind of bacteria which you DON T wanna have in the
colon. Furthermore fermentaton of foods is an agricultural process.You can
t call on agriculture “a la carte” you either ban it as bad or embrace it.

e)28:25 Height loss is not a bad thing for a species…think of mammooths
and elephants. It may be that taller people are considered sexier but first
of all that s a matter of opinion and second it has nothing to do with

f)28:38 Meat eating became more common with agriculture.Hunting requires
more time and effort than keeping a livestock.

g)take the pre Colombian America as an example.South and cental America
were the rich and vast empires of the Mayas,Incas and the Aztecs, who all
developed agriculture and to the north nomads living in tents. So who was

h)30:35 He almost got me there for awhile and i was thinking he has a
point. But then I realised that same thing applies for meat! We can t eat
meat the way it exists. We have to skin it preserve it cook it.We can get
salmonela and mad cow disease from eating raw meat and eggs. Europe has
banned brain and gut and stomach consumption from animals. Remember…the
lions cherrished delicacy…Poisonous insects snakes and fish! you name it!

i)46:58 Paleo is against dairy as well. he had to ask the same question to
himself. but to be honest he was cornered…to do that he had to support a
part of the china study and he was not as objective as the other john to do

But it s time for me to be objective with all his fallacies he did make a
good point in that opting for organic grass fed animal foods puts more
stress to factory farms than veganism which unfortunately is not so
popular. Meat overconsumption was not even an issue before 1950s because
meat was too expensive.

Stockton Aloe 1 says:

Oh, and this scientist basically destroys the paleo diet.

maier wolfgang says:

This discussion was a complete farce. How can you talk about eating more
more meat when animal agriculture is responsible for devastating global
depletion and climate change. The criticism of The China Study just made me
laugh, the paleo fanatic said it the data wasnt significant and just
observational studies so we cant really draw any conclusions. But where are
the equivalent studies on the so called paleo diet that he barks on about?
What a joke. These paleo zealots need to get out of the way of those that
eat a diet that is healthy for the planet, better for the billions of
animals that are slaughtered (because humans are so weak they cant give up
‘their beloved meat and dairy’) and better for human health (and our
economy). The debate is over, there can be no argument that a plant based
diet is the only way to go if we are to slow climate change and avoid
catastrophic environmental damage.

kaunas888 says:

Sounds like the two men basically agree, except that one recommends small
amounts of animal foods, while the other recommends bigger amounts. Both
agree that the standard American diet is crap, and we need to eat whole,
natural, healthy foods.

Frank Arrietta says:

My only issue with veganism is that it stems from ethical mistreatment of
animals causing young, idealistic people to jump on a fanatical band-wagon
without having the proper knowledge of nutrition to execute a radical diet
change effectively. The fact is, most people DON’T know the physiology of
food and how macros a micronutrients affect us…because it is largely
untaught before college, where even still you would only hear of it in
specialized course programs. If you do your research and know what
supplemental measures should be taken to avoid malnutrition, veganism a
very intelligent approach to health; but for the average person within the
vegan demo, protein and fatty acid deficiencies abound.

Side note: Citing vegan converts who work at WholeFoods is hardly a
non-biased talking point for referencing results in general populations.
Poor form, there.

Yamila May says:

I find it quite ridiculous that the CEO of Whole Foods is talking about
being vegan for “ethical” reasons , when his stores sell animal meats and
dairy .

Denet Lewis says:

“The Paleo Manifesto is likely the most important contribution to the
concept of ancestral health since Boyd Eaton’s original The Paleolithic
–Robb Wolf, New York Times bestselling author of The Paleo Solution

Rhino Vegan says:

“A fear of cholesterol is killing people?” And all this time I thought it
was clogged arteries haha. Also pretty funny that the VEGAN, CEO of Whole
Foods, is advocating for small amounts of animal foods….I wonder if
that’s because he sells those foods at his stores. Hypocrisy and corporate
motive at it’s finest. 

Denet Lewis says:

Thoughts on what the “Whole World will eat”
A meat-rich diet requires far more fertilizer and water than one based on
grains and legumes.
Meat is grain (and water) in another package. It takes 4.5 pounds of grain
to produce 1 pound of chicken meat; 7.3 pounds to produce 1 pound of pork;
and 20 pounds to produce 1 pound of beef. Only 4% of the protein in corn is
converted to edible protein in beef. It’s just 10% in pork and 20% in

The global demand for animal protein is increasing rapidly, according to
the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO). Global
meat consumption increased from about 100 to 235 tons from 1970 to 2000 and
continues to climb. In the meat-eating US, livestock consumes 7 times the
amount of grain consumed directly by America’s entire human population.
Asia hasn’t approached this level yet, but its higher standard of living
means the demand for meat will continue to grow.

While the Chinese prefer pork, their demand for beef—the least
protein-efficient meat—is pegged to increase substantially and jack up
imports from 75,000 to a record 500,000 tons, according to the USDA.
There’s a whole lot of grain chewed up in those numbers.

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